Yeah. Scanning through for problem phases is easy because, for most phases, at first glance you remember exactly what you did and what the answer is, and therefore if the move will throw it off. Resolving every single phase (especially if all the answers are changed) would be just plain wrong.

My first suggestion is that some people go through and look for problem phases, and offer revisions that still have the same answer.

My second suggestion (which will probably already be the case) is that, if you, say, know the password to the phase 70 forum, that in unlocking the forum you also unlock all the forums from 1-69. That way, we simply have to type in our most recent answer to get bumped back up to where we are.

I think we should be able to get back up to where we were, and keep the phases the same except in places where it is impossible.

I really wouln't want to have to go through the whole thing again.

That's an interesting idea... I might be able to make something like this available for the first couple of months or so.

I say that we should modify all of the phases slightly and change the answers. Here's why I think this

1. If you don't start at the beginning, you might skip something important that comes with the phases (AKA new features)
2. More of a challenge. If you can't take the time to restart it over again, you'll be done quicker, which is bad since there's really nothing to do anymore once you hit phase 100
3. Kick-Start the new website. We don't need everyone who starts off there finishing within a week, it kind of discourages people when everyone already finished all the phases.

There was something else, but I forgot it

I can tell you exactly why your 3 reasons are wrong, Justice, and provide 3 additional reasons why we shouldn't have the administration hand-pick their way through 100 phases and revise them all.

1. There will not likely be any new features that pop up in earlier phases that will be necessary to complete the entire site. Ideally, nothing would need any sort of major overhaul other than the basic phase-upgrade system and the password system.

2. More of a challenge - oh, please. Web Riddler is enough of a challenge as it is. Starting over isn't challenging at all, anyways, since we'll fly right through the phases because we know the basic solving method for each. It wouldn't be fun and exciting to start over - rather tedious and monotonous, not to mention a waste of time. I for one do NOT want to go back through the solving process of every single phase out there.

3. Kick-start the website. We don't need to start at square one to help activity. What needs to happen to make WR an exciting place to be is for us to post more, and for us to help out in the hint topics. The newer people don't need us solving five times faster than them to feel like there's something going on - if anything, that will make them feel slow and stupid and less likely to continue solving.

(4.) Since we've solved so many phases already, having them all changed on us will likely completely throw off our memory, and then when hinting to others we'll give tons of hints that actually are no help at all.

(5.) Some phases, due to their very nature, simply can't have the answer changed. The solving method points to one thing and one thing alone. If every phase was required to be revised, then for these many phases, revising is equivalent to rewriting.

(6.) Now, think about the administration side of this. Revising problem phases - which is necessary for the site to be transferred to a new server - is enough work on the Jax and Felix side already. Now imagine, Justice, going through 100 phases - by hand - and coming up with a brand new solution for each. And if you expect them to even slightly alter the solving method, then that's almost as big of a job as writing out 100 brand new phases - sure, the inspiration step is skipped, but recall all the research you had to do in these phases. The staff would have to do all that tenfold. You want this site to come out as soon as possible, right? Then let's give them the easiest job we can.

Well I dont feel another long statement need be said. But I can say well put. Lots of work will be done, most by jax and im sure eventually a lot by me for phase stuff. So no reason to add more for nothing.

1. I never said it would be necessary, just that we'd see the features that come with the earlier phases (if applicable), instead of skipping all of them altogether.

2. The second half is pure opinion, so I can't really respond to that. The first half is not entirely true. You won't know the basic solving method enough to beat it within five minutes or so, and still have to think it through. This still gives the satisfaction after beating it though.

3. That makes no sense. You started off like you disagreed with me, then you turned around and repeated what I said.

4. Ok, here's your argument. "We did them all already, so changing will throw off our memory, then when we give hints, our hints will probably be no help at all"

Here's my response: Your memory won't be too thrown off if it's changed just slightly, but depending on what happens to this site, if you don't do the phases again, you might not know how the phase goes, and you're actually more likely to give bad hints or hint towards the wrong phase than if you went over again. If the old WR is still open, it might still work, but keeping PW's for 2 sites would still be a pain.

5. Then keep those the same, and slightly modify everything else

6. Keep them the same for a while, and slowly change the passwords, and somehow let the players who already passed it know what the new passwords are or something.

Well, we're certainly getting some interesting points raised. This isn't a warning to break up the debate - I want to hear people's opinions. Just make sure it doesn't turn personal.

At the moment, I'm probably learning towards keeping the answers the same bar about 2 or 3 phases that I can think of that would need to be changed. There are also others that will need to be changed, but the answer can stay the same.

On that note, can I get you guys to let me know what Phases you consider to be 'problem phases'. Possibly ones that were too difficult for their order, too simple, too tedious, too little clues, etc.

Send me a PM titled: "Problem Phase: #" and give me a description of what you think is wrong with it. Try to send me a seperate PM for each phase.

...I'm gonna start with one thing: EWWWWWWWWW. Gradually changing passwords is just wrong. We've already had major complaints when the Masterminds password was changed once or twice. Changing every single forum and every single phase GRADUALLY is even worse than if we them in the first place.

I admit you're right - if someone is to give a hint on a revised phase that they don't know has been revised, it could be problematically. But honestly. Does anybody actually try to hint a phase without checking the Spoilerz first? If you do, well, I highly recommend you change your system. I don't know anyone who could give hints about "phase 27" without going to check what it was.

In addition, your rebuttal was based on the assumption that all phases will be revised, anyways. Likely very few will be, and if they aren't entirely replaced (which, I confess, might happen to a few), they will simply be improved - maintaining the exact same solving method, with maybe another hint or two thrown in along the way. Hinting should be just as simple for most of the revised phases. You're right. If we were to change the answer and solving method for every phase, we should start from scratch. Please, please, please, let's not do that.


.......



Mmkay. Well, here's my main point: Revising all the phases is unnecessary work, and most of the people in the higher level phases would find that starting from square one with these revisions is easy enough to not be a challenge, yet takes too long and too much work (not even including research phases) to be worthwhile.

As for the kick-starting the site... I agree that there will be a boom of activity, and it will be nice if we go back and contribute to the discussions and hint topics that the lower-phase people are in. This does not require us starting at phase 1. Additionally, if people see us starting at the same time they do at the same phase, and getting back up to 70 when they're stuck on 21... if by any chance they don't know the truth (that we've done it all before), then the members will be discouraged and possibly even go to the extent of considering themselves failures. Any action that could in any way lead to this sort of riddling atmosphere - especially any action that is too much work and pointless work at that - isn't worth it at all, and is likely much more of a negative effect than a positive one on many, many levels.

Besides, every site needs leaders who are helping the little ones. If we haven't done the new, revised phases (and don't have access to the old WR Spoilerz forum), then it's quite possible that someone who isn't as experienced will be in an awkward position. "well u got 2 level 50 on the old site rite? so can u help me on 27?" "Yeah, ummm, sorry, but since they remade every single phase, I, an experience riddler, can not help you. You, an unexperienced riddler, are on your own. Best of luck." And let's not forget Felix, the (while Maniac is gone) second-in-command administrator. would think that it would be quite a pain for him to have to redo all 100 phases when he's supposed to be the omnipotent high-ruling almighty administrator, hmm?

...look. Doing the kind of work Jax is doing on the new forum is insane enough. Requiring both the administration and members of the forum to do even more work (that likely few, if any people on either end will enjoy - and will possibly disturb the atmosphere of the riddling community) is an absurd request. The point of the move is not to create a new Web Riddler. The point is to improve the current Web Riddler, and help it to grow into a better, more enjoyable place to be. These are big changes, not a big redo. We are trying to improve the system of an already amazing website. Requiring ridiculous remaking and resolving is repulsive. (Heh, sorry).

This transfer of the website is a great opportunity for Web Riddler to grow. If you're itching to take a break with some simpler, more easily solvable phases, who knows? Maybe there will be some waiting for you. Until then, instead of killing Web Riddler at the roots and expecting it to grow back, let's just trim the branches a bit. The New Web Riddler is not intended to be a brand a new challenge - simply a new way of presenting it. Sure, a couple of things will have to be adjusted because of the move - that's what the trimming is for. A website is not a phoenix. If you destroy it once, it just might not come back. Please, Justice. Stop advocating for destroying what I put a year and a half of hard work into. If you expect me to redo all that, then I will be heavily inclined to leave the site. If all that work was wasted....... well, let me leave it at this:

I will not stand for destroying hard work.

I will not stand for forcing others to repeat it.

I stand for the life and growth Web Riddler - not its death.

Okay... Another long passage.

I now understand your point of not redoing all 100 phases...

I have a suggestion...

Revision is a good thing, but not necessarily remaking them. So, why don't we just fetch a few members (like you and me) who are still active and each one of them review a number of phases... I'm not very sure, but I think for the sake of WR, this is not a bad plan.

FOR EXAMPLE ONLY!

matchu is now done up to 78... while I'm only done to 60... feuer is done to 30 something...

So, we possibly can distribute the workload between the few of us and we can spot out the problem phases while not having to overlap our work...

EDIT: Of course, it's not 3 of the members... There are more than 3 active members

Man... I should hire you to write me speeches...

No, seriously... I've got this thing at uni that you could...

Another thing I can tell you that'll be likely - When the site opens, not all of the phases will be immediately available. The nature of some of them requires an active forum first. In all likelihood, the site will open with the first 10-15 phases or so. With about 10 phases being added each each.

Seeing as they'll be added incremently, does that change anyone's mind about going through them again?

Haha, yeah. I've had practice at complaining about bad ideas websites have xD

...anyways. I officially rest my case until Saturday, June 16th, when I come back from my mission trip to New Orleans. Unless I new post comes up in the next 4 minutes.


Bye, y'all. Don't destroy anything without me.

And Jax. Don't do anything too cool without me ;D

EDIT: Whaddaya know. Something new popped up within those 4 minutes.

I like the idea of adding gradually... though we wouldn't need that many pauses. Only a few of them really refer to certain things an active forum would have. Even so...

I'm not even going to bother reading your post Matchu. I just don't care anymore.

EDIT: I did read it for the heck of it, and you came out really bad. I post my opinion and some reason why I think that, and this is what it turns into. You are being too much of a drama queen, and not only was it not necessary, you made it sound like I was evil to even bring it up. All you did with that post was piss me off, and now I probably just won't post my opinion anymore. Thanks a lot, dumbass.

Hey, what'd I say about it turning personal. This is simply a debate justice, he's countering your point of view with your own. I saw no personal attacks in matchu's post. There is a difference between argument and debate.

priory: i am working on 37... and i need to update my sig

matchu: i agree... 100% (or close to 100%)

my part of the argument is as follows:

i hate speeches so i will say i agree with matchu about not doing every phase over again. i also agree with priory that i can do 0-30, prory can do 31-60, matchu 61-78, felix 79-100... again as said before this is an example and there are more active member then us that also can cover some phases


jax: did i ever say thank you for making WR?... if not "thank you"

off to change sig